LOW SLOW WEAK WEREWOLF

Post and discuss your suggestions for future Werewolf versions here.
Crystalx1
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LOW SLOW WEAK WEREWOLF

Postby Crystalx1 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:24 pm

Hi, i am playing WW 1 27 on Garena with several other mid+ players.

And to be honest in this mod i have never ever seen win the wolf, especially destroy all bases.
Wolf lv so slow, and is so low and players have many numbers of units....thats litteraly impossible to win as wolf.



NERF villagers, Boost Wolf.
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Jesse James
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Re: LOW SLOW WEAK WEREWOLF

Postby Jesse James » Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:12 pm

Thank you for joining the forums and making your opinion known. WWT development thrives on community input. I promise we're working as best we can to update!

We can only update on our free time and most days our family, work and schooling takes priority. Thank you for your patients while we work on the next version!

Happy Hunting!
Astrozavr
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Re: LOW SLOW WEAK WEREWOLF

Postby Astrozavr » Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:47 am

I agree with the topic starter. The Map's authors could try to solve the problem of underpowered wolf by experiments with ww's leveling-up speed. It's really hard to get up more strengh to ww unit after attainment about lvl 10 by him. By this moment villagers have already built their armies and barricades becasue of daylight economical advantage and werewolf still hasn't got enough power by his main unit and his army to push smb's armed stronghold effectively. So he is obliged to step back and continue his forest's farming. But here he faces with a problem of a few amount (or their full absence) of "boss" animals for which he could get more experience. Only bears can give him decent exp for leveling but they are rare and random spawn. Other animals doesn't give any sizeable amount of exp, so the game is gonna tighten for all players and become boring and not interesting for ww. I think if all players were aware of a threat of faster leveling-up for ww they would have to make precautionary measures to stay alive and win. This small modification with required amount of exp point for ww to get a next level is able to bring much more movement into the game in the whole. After all, villagers should be interested to defeat a werewolf in the same rate as he wants to defeat them. Nowadays villagers in many games prefer to be passive and hide themselves in their bases behind tripple fences and lots of army. This problem becomes more critical when you face up with double-basers.
To say a long story short: the deeper game sinks into its late stage, the more powerful and invulnerable werewolf must become. We don't see this in current game' stage. Lvl25 for ww and ability it gives are weak. He sould have an opportunity to get maximum lvl much faster to be a threat for others. I consider it doesnt need much efforts to changes some paramenters in map's option for 1 unit. You should force villagers to set on their minds before and require actions from them if they want to win. If they are passive they dont deserve a victory.
Here I must notice another problem that ww faces with. Many times I saw an absurd situation when ww cant break a gate or a fence effectively because a pack of adolescent men repair them almost at the same amount as damage's dealt. And at the same time ww loses the lion's share of his HP and is not able to cotinue his attack. IMHO You should remove the ability of reparing buildings by adolescent men at all or reduce their amount to only one or make this process requiring expensive resorces. I vote for the first variant but of course a main villager should be able to repair as nowadays.
Next, defending buildings are too fat. 1600 hp and 50% armor for a wall is not funny for ww. Plantaion is very fat too. Taking into consideration very cheap cost for both build and upgrade a villager gets big advantage for no particular reason.
If I understand logical concept of stories about werewolves and other scary creatures right, they (ww) should be much more stronger than common humans. So my ideal is in that ww could manage with villagers by his own power without a help from the side of an army - without which as you can see - he cant do nowadays. From my point of view the game requires fundamental changes mainly in its concept - concept of confrontation of two sides: villagers and werewolf and anyway ww should have some advantage. Villagers have their default advantage from the beggining - they are 7 and ww is the only. How villagers will be combine their efforts or they will not combine - it is their problems. Now we can see even 1 player in solo can defeat ww easily.
In other topics someone expressed an opinion that it would be better to have 2 werewolves in 1 game or it would be better to give him a help with another supported unit.... It will be a pitiful werewolf who needs a help from supported unit I guess. WW should manage with others by his own power and brain. 2 werewolves are bad idea because it's not fair for villagers: if ww unit will be got by skillfull player - then it will be easy gg for him because he has already an economical and exp advantage on his villager. At the same time you force in such way villagers to strengthen their economy from the beginning - you eliminate all eforts of active players how finds and chases a ww over map as soon as the first night started. 2 werewolves are absurd thing. 1 werewolf = 1 game = 1 lost/victory. And it is fair.
in conclusion i would like to notice some other aspects regarding with items power.
1) Cheese is OP. It is very cheap, gives you instant 500 hp heal (almost full hp in low and mid levels) and has 5 charges with small cooldawn. Nice joke. I think 1 charge is absolutely enough and price should be higher.
2) Winter Owl is OP. this item gives you maximum speed in the game and game becomes shit when you see how max lvl speed werewolf cant run down a villager effectively in limited vision forest at night and kill him because of this fucking OP item and 30+ armor and 1200+ Hp. Think again about such set of factors that gives a villager easy opportunity to escape without fighting for a very long time. And ofc a clever villager will joke under ww by abusing caves and impassable terrains.... so you will never KILL him in the form of ww. So the question: if I have a chance to use a jasmine tea and catch a villager in a daylight FOR WHAT FUCKING REASON at all I NEED A WW UNIT WHO CAN NOT KILL this HUMAN almost noway ??? I underline : if other player with the owl is a clever guy.
So the decision is simply - removing winter owl for another bonus.
3) Dynamites have strange damage dealt. I dont know it exactly but in different games I saw range from 100-500 pure damage to villager. Distance is no matter. It can deal 500 damage or 100 and i don understand so far from what this depends on. And effective casualty radius is very small I think would better to increse it a little and choose a constant amount of damage for this item - not random.
4) For amateurs: Ball hair item could be more useable if the duration of stun were ~ 5 sec. It can allow players use it in some combinations.
Thx for your attention.
With best wishes.
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Ruoska
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Re: LOW SLOW WEAK WEREWOLF

Postby Ruoska » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:13 pm

Astrozavr wrote:2) Winter Owl is OP. this item gives you maximum speed in the game and game becomes shit when you see how max lvl speed werewolf cant run down a villager effectively in limited vision forest at night and kill him because of this fucking OP item and 30+ armor and 1200+ Hp. Think again about such set of factors that gives a villager easy opportunity to escape without fighting for a very long time. And ofc a clever villager will joke under ww by abusing caves and impassable terrains.... so you will never KILL him in the form of ww. So the question: if I have a chance to use a jasmine tea and catch a villager in a daylight FOR WHAT FUCKING REASON at all I NEED A WW UNIT WHO CAN NOT KILL this HUMAN almost noway ??? I underline : if other player with the owl is a clever guy.
So the decision is simply - removing winter owl for another bonus.


I agree with you, as werewolf I could not catch a villager because of this shitty winter owl.

+ Werewolf is too weak in this version, the villager in 3 nights he can have already 18 soldiers (range units)
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Astrozavr
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Re: LOW SLOW WEAK WEREWOLF

Postby Astrozavr » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:40 pm

5) The amount of available Ivory towers is too high (16 now if I'm not wrong). These towers in their mass deal a lot of damage to both ww's unit and his army and do impossible effective siege till a moment ww has got a high level. Besides they are very cheap. I think it would be better to reduce amount of these towers till 4-5 maximum. Because a villager can train ranged units and defend his base by them.
And imho you should remove a "true sight" ability from the towers - players have lightposts for this purpose.
6) Amount of armor which a villager can craft by mining is a bit excessive. 20 armor is groundlessly. +35 damage can be explain by a need to hunt animals effectively - ok. But for what villager needs 20 armor ? He has a lot of other chances to save his life such as unpassable terrains, caves, jasmine tea, hiding in fat plantaion, fish net, even acrons' stun.
When a villager got very cheap and very good bonus armor (read: viability) as an addition to all things named above - he becomes much more annoying and a game becomes stupid and boring for ww.
I think that an acceptable amount of armor which a villager can craft should be 10-13 maximum. The less the better.
British Merchant
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Re: LOW SLOW WEAK WEREWOLF

Postby British Merchant » Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:38 pm

I agree to remove winter owl! It is so retarded ... Once I lost as lvl 25 ww against villager because he was faster and stronger than me . What is the point of the game where WW could not defeat single handed villager?

Removing cheese would be stupid and also towers are ok ,but maybe make it harder to make them more costly like 500 g 500 w for one tower. Things that need to be removed is shield against magic which is so retarded again because what's the point of gaining other abilities then? HP and brewing should be capped to 2000 HP and inv potion should be removed too. I like the way units are balanced now tho
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Ruoska
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Re: LOW SLOW WEAK WEREWOLF

Postby Ruoska » Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:29 am

British Merchant wrote: Things that need to be removed is shield against magic which is so retarded again because what's the point of gaining other abilities then?



the night magic affects the other units, farm, animals etc. (not only the villagers)



Astrozavr wrote:5) The amount of available Ivory towers is too high (16 now if I'm not wrong). These towers in their mass deal a lot of damage to both ww's unit and his army and do impossible effective siege till a moment ww has got a high level. Besides they are very cheap. I think it would be better to reduce amount of these towers till 4-5 maximum.


anyway who have time to build 16 towers ?

.....you guys complain too much removing cheese, towers, shield, armor already is ridiculous :lol: anyway everyone is free with opinions
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Astrozavr
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Re: LOW SLOW WEAK WEREWOLF

Postby Astrozavr » Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:33 pm

anyway who have time to build 16 towers ?

Special for you, Ruoska, I cite an example of a replay where the red player convincingly proves absurdity of your words. Check 35 min' mark of that game. Then try to beat a such barricader in the situation as it is on this replay while you are a ww. (under a condition he will stay inside his base) Post here the link for proof and I will take my words back. Otherwise you are engaged in an idle talk.
And I explain every my suggestion (about armor, cheese etc.) while you have not arguments.
http://falanor.dlinkddns.com:83/replay/ ... layers.w3g