Play the map

Post and discuss your suggestions for future Werewolf versions here.
shieldbreaker
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Play the map

Postby shieldbreaker » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:59 am

Real talk - try to play the map at least a little bit or pass off the editing to someone else. The new changes have skewed the game in favor of werewolf, especially if there are only 1 or 2 good villagers. I mean really, if the werewolf has a constant power level (as opposed to scaling with the players), how can the game possible be balanced for 1v1 and 4v1 simultaneously (only including good players)? I could list off a bunch of things that would improve the game, but they'd mostly be obvious if you played it frequently. And randomizing the players is going to skew it even more in favor of the werewolf. And if Spear Throw were fixed (right now it still hits the werewolf in villager form for old damage and stun) the werewolf would be almost unbeatable.
matosch83
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Re: Play the map

Postby matosch83 » Sat Sep 23, 2017 10:09 am

Depends on who is playing it. If its people like you that know how to play best this map then yeah its true. But if the ww is a beginner or even someone that has played the map a few times he can still be easily killed. I think what this map needs more is a version for beginners and a version for pro players. It doesnt make fun as well when you play versus some people that end the game in night 3 to 4 with ww lvl 25 and villager lvl 25 while the rest has maybe hit lvl 20 or so.
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WharfRat
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Re: Play the map

Postby WharfRat » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:03 pm

People say the WW is too strong now, and while I agree it's much stronger, I think a lot of players difficulty comes from lack of teamwork. Many experienced players are used to flying totally independent and still being a force to be reckoned with (1v1ing WW as villager memories...) but that's not really how I imagine WW is meant to be played anyway. We're villagers. Plural. I remember many months ago (when the WW wasn't 'op') my base was being attacked, and a fellow villager came with his army and scared off the wolf, saving me. This kind of play should be promoted.

It's up to the experienced members to be mentors in the community to help it grow - try helping some new players and encouraging communication and see what happens :)
matosch83
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Re: Play the map

Postby matosch83 » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:16 pm

And besides play as ww against some of the better players, they get the villager so strong that they almost alone kill the wolf or at least are able to kill you little army with the villager alone.

This map just needs 2 versions. 1 for the beginners to learn the map and learn tactics and teamwork. the 2nd for pro players with a hell lot of secrets and other gimmicks that help both villager and ww.
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Jesse James
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Re: Play the map

Postby Jesse James » Sun Oct 01, 2017 3:55 pm

I think WharfRat is right. This game was intended to be more complicated than spam X and 1v1 fist fight the werewolf. There is a political aspect of the game that has been neglected for a long time now because werewolf was under powered and a player could fight the werewolf at night without a supporting army.

Building alliances, deception, and betrayal in my estimation should be as integral to your gameplay as your choice of income or base location. That is why we have introduced features such as name changing. WWT is a complex game that requires one to hone their social skills in order to be truly successful. If you simply want to build a base and bully the antagonist there are other very well crafted games like vampirism available.

You shouldn't be able to fight the werewolf by yourself at night. In fact, you should struggle to fight them during the day (when they are at their weakest) because you are both villagers and should be of equal standing (skill, strategy, and luck not withstanding). Besting the werewolf requires superior strategy and cooperation.

As for beginners and veterans playing the map and skewing the result there is some aspect to this that is unavoidable. This after all is a 1 versus All kind of game and if the one isn't up to the challenge there isn't much we can do to help them. We're doing our best to try to alleviate this bottleneck in the gameplay. Falanor has developed some interesting features for Fbot that reduce the number of inexperienced players performing as the werewolf. We're certainly open to other suggestions and there may be some merit to a werewolf with scaled powers that is dependent on the number of villagers in the game.
shieldbreaker
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Re: Play the map

Postby shieldbreaker » Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:56 pm

A big problem with teaming is that you can't team before the first night without high potential for things to go wrong (assuming you voted to be werewolf which is IMO the correct choice). The political aspect would be a lot better if the werewolf knew they were going to be werewolf as soon as the game started
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Pwnage
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Re: Play the map

Postby Pwnage » Thu Oct 12, 2017 8:19 pm

shieldbreaker, I'd like to point out that I make it a goal of mine to play every version thoroughly before making any changes. Changes over the last few years have been adding up to make the werewolf significantly stronger and make the villagers more mortal. I will say that I'm quite happy with the shift, as it's finally rewarding to play as the werewolf, but will agree that a good werewolf is absolutely unbeatable. A big reason for this is the lack of permanent stunning, which previously skewed the game heavily in the villagers' favor. Couple this with the fact that the werewolf can almost always safely flee via prowl, and ghouls properly existing, and you have a very formidable foe.

It's apparent that there is an imbalance during the night, but this is what the game has needed for years. The wolf is not helpless, and can wreak havoc freely at night. However, villagers are in need of some mechanic to actually beat the werewolf. Currently, the only option is to wait until he's in villager form, or try to stun lock with nets, spear shot and maybe haunted corpse with musketeers and ivory towers. I have some ideas to combat this, and will begin working on implementations.

Furthermore, I'm not convinced on the name scrambling. It's not conducive to casual play, and I wasn't sold on the logic for its necessity. This is something we'll have to talk over. This is a moot point as it doesn't change embedded game mechanics, but I just wanted to reiterate that I am playing this game and assessing changes rationally. Please be patient as we are all incredibly busy and volunteer our time to continue updating this game and keeping it alive.
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Coronatorum
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Re: Play the map

Postby Coronatorum » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:33 pm

Pwnage wrote: Furthermore, I'm not convinced on the name scrambling. It's not conducive to casual play, and I wasn't sold on the logic for its necessity. This is something we'll have to talk over. This is a moot point as it doesn't change embedded game mechanics, but I just wanted to reiterate that I am playing this game and assessing changes rationally.


Well, in my opinion name randomization is one of the best features that was added in the while. Im sure that every "main-wolf" will agree with me on this point - it was so horrific to play if u have a reputation of a good wolf - people would hunt you on sight, even if you were playing as villager - they wold not bother to check it, they would just hunt you down. But now, with "name randomization" its always a thrilling experience since u dont know who wolf is! I play a lot and have spoken with many players and and all of them were really happy about this feature. (even those who play mostly as villagers)
DemonLordM
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Re: Play the map

Postby DemonLordM » Sat Oct 14, 2017 2:54 pm

The randomization mode seems pretty fun so far would be a shame to see it go
HostStoleMyBike
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Re: Play the map

Postby HostStoleMyBike » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:02 pm

Coronatorum wrote:
Pwnage wrote: Furthermore, I'm not convinced on the name scrambling. It's not conducive to casual play, and I wasn't sold on the logic for its necessity. This is something we'll have to talk over. This is a moot point as it doesn't change embedded game mechanics, but I just wanted to reiterate that I am playing this game and assessing changes rationally.


Well, in my opinion name randomization is one of the best features that was added in the while. Im sure that every "main-wolf" will agree with me on this point - it was so horrific to play if u have a reputation of a good wolf - people would hunt you on sight, even if you were playing as villager - they wold not bother to check it, they would just hunt you down. But now, with "name randomization" its always a thrilling experience since u dont know who wolf is! I play a lot and have spoken with many players and and all of them were really happy about this feature. (even those who play mostly as villagers)


Agreed. People who have played against me enough know that I play WW most of the time, so they would start going after me just based on that information. With this new feature it takes more work to find out who is WW, which is how the game is meant to be played, IMO.
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KidsEatFree
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Re: Play the map

Postby KidsEatFree » Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:59 pm

The random babe feature should stay. I stopped playing serious before it was implemented because I usually knew who the wolf was just based on recognizing names from the community.

Dudlan, host, blondie, ect I would go out of my way to kill them in game just because they were probably wolf it took the fun out of because I knew by their game preferences they were probably wolf.
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KidsEatFree
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Re: Play the map

Postby KidsEatFree » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:11 pm

Jesse James wrote:Building alliances, deception, and betrayal in my estimation should be as integral to your gameplay as your choice of income or base location. That is why we have introduced features such as name changing. WWT is a complex game that requires one to hone their social skills in order to be truly successful. If you simply want to build a base and bully the antagonist there are other very well crafted games like vampirism available

e.



I believe this is important. Werewolf power level is finally we're it needs to be. As a result game meta is shifting and players are actively talking to each other and trying to figure out best ways as a team to take down the wolf. At this point I believe a few targeted buffs directed at villagers will even the game out, things that before had to be nerfef or removed because of the previous weakness of Werewolf.

Without going into details or research targeted buffs like giving dog or wife back true sight.
pacmanicng
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Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:10 pm

Re: Play the map

Postby pacmanicng » Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:19 pm

Now i'm still new to the WW trans community but i have seen how useful random names are when i was talking to a few other people in the lobby aka them telling me show shit i was at ww i told them i was just trying to get practice in but later that without random names game i was targeted and killed which was kinda my fault for being a dumby but it still showed that players target people who have been playing ww recently or are known to play ww alot getting rid of random name seems like a horrible idea
chaosZ
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Re: Play the map

Postby chaosZ » Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:58 pm

Himmmm... name randomizer i like it :D so tasty :D
dudlan66
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Re: Play the map

Postby dudlan66 » Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:31 pm

If there was no name randomizer I would probably lose every other game because players would just stalk me from the start
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