Lets Talk the Meta

Discuss Werewolf - Transylvania strategy, map and more.

Where should Werewolf player build?

The Windmill or Waterfall area
2
17%
One of the openings near the Southeast Lake
0
No votes
One of the openings around Owl Shrine
1
8%
Near or at either Quarry
0
No votes
Near the sea or in the marshlands
1
8%
In Morder/Build A Little Everywhere
4
33%
Centralized somewhere between the Caste, Windmill, and SE Lake
1
8%
Somewhere on the Eastern Side of the map between Quarry and Lake
1
8%
Somewhere small with limited access like Rabbit or Rocky spawn
1
8%
I'm not giving away my secrets to victory!
1
8%
 
Total votes: 12
KidsEatFree
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Lets Talk the Meta

Postby KidsEatFree » Sat Jul 22, 2017 3:21 am

Greetings friends, rivals, and enemies.


With the recent and mostly awesome changes to everyones favorite map we've seen game play trend to mobility. Mobility is king and currently villagers are opting more and more into that mobile profession of hunting. The discussion is not about balance issues regarding hunting but rather this "How does one effectively play as wolf when more players are traveling more of the map.?" How does a wolf player handle basing in mobile based meta that has resulted in greater map visibility by most players? over other professions which means more of the map is being observed by a greater number of players.

Lets talk about being the wolf and lets start with a Day 1 or Day 2 question
In a game where more villagers are roaming the map, which locations are actually poor and a bad decision for a wolf player to build and base?
Last edited by KidsEatFree on Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Pwnage
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Re: Lets Talk the Meta

Postby Pwnage » Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:16 pm

Modular bases have always been strategically viable, but perhaps now more than ever.
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XXXTentacion
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Re: Lets Talk the Meta

Postby XXXTentacion » Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:02 am

I was gonna write a long post about this situation but I'm too lazy to finish it up right now. First and foremost the wolf can also have a mobile base as well which is really appealing to do as a WW whos main objective is to roam around the map to hunt down other villagers. Early stage basing isn't a very good strategy as of this moment as its way too risky to lose your wife and sons as I think they're a necessity to maintain and expand your base. And once you lose those key components to your base its very hard to base up again because you can't build those ivory towers up fast enough to withstand another WW attack. I'm not gonna beat around the bushes, its fact that mobile basing is the best strategy as of now even more so with mode select narrowing down the WW to be a very skilled player. (I could write 2-3 paragraphs easily on why I think mode select is bad for the game right now if need be)

And honestly I really feel like early stage basing should get buffed in a way so that it could be close to matching mobile basing in terms of viability. Mobile basing is really boring as the strategy is to level up your villager and get gold from the barn through plants, pigs and sheep until you've reached enough gold and lumber to base up permanently. I want early basing to be a viable choice because newer players look to this strategy when starting out. Honestly I feel the game should have more clarity for newer players in general. All these recent up and coming things really discourages newer players to try out the game.
Last edited by XXXTentacion on Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
KidsEatFree
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Re: Lets Talk the Meta

Postby KidsEatFree » Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:54 am

XXXTentacion wrote:I was gonna write a long post about this situation but I'm too lazy to finish it up right now. First and foremost the wolf can also have a mobile base as well which is really appealing to do as a WW whos main objective is to roam around the map to hunt down other villagers. Early stage basing isn't a very good strategy as of this moment as its way too risky to lose your wife and sons as I think they're a necessity to maintain and expand your base. And once you lose those key components to your base its very hard to base up again because you can't build those ivory towers up fast enough to withstand another WW attack. I'm not gonna beat around the bushes, its fact that mobile basing is the best strategy as of now even more so with mode select narrowing down the WW to be a very skilled player. (I could write 2-3 paragraphs easily on why I think mode select is bad for the game right now if need be)

And honestly I really feel like early stage basing should get buffed in a way so that it could be close to matching mobile basing in terms of viability. Mobile basing is really boring as the strategy is to level up your villager and get gold from the barn through plants, pigs and sheep until you've reached enough gold and lumber to base up permanently. I want early basing to be a viable choice because newer players look to this strategy when starting out. Honestly I feel the game should have more clarity for newer players as that flashing text about professions can easily be ignored.



These are good points and maybe a little clarity would help out newer players as this game has quite a bit of a skill ceiling and floor.
XXXTentacion
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Re: Lets Talk the Meta

Postby XXXTentacion » Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:55 am

KidsEatFree wrote:
These are good points and maybe a little clarity would help out newer players as this game has quite a bit of a skill ceiling and floor.


A simple useless item or a useless passive ability that has a tool tip explaining the professions is far more efficient and would be a good start in terms of making the game more newer player friendly. After all the WC3 community is small as is.
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Pwnage
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Re: Lets Talk the Meta

Postby Pwnage » Fri Jul 28, 2017 8:50 pm

XXXTentacion wrote:Early stage basing isn't a very good strategy as of this moment as its way too risky to lose your wife and sons as I think they're a necessity to maintain and expand your base.

I wouldn't say that early basing isn't good, because you can certainly make a pretty good defense in the first night and elaborate upon that success with relative ease. The problem with winning using an early base is that your investments are easily located if you stay within the base during night and get spotted out. An easy way to overcome this is to rush a wife as quickly as possible and prioritize using her to farm crops so your base is less easily discovered. Few strategies accommodate getting a wife first night, but it's certainly possible. Once you have the wife, send your villager & dog hunting and everything should be fine. The only difficulty in this strategy is micromanaging your wife/sons effectively while your villager performs other tasks, but micromanaging is expected in the current meta regardless, so this should be trivial.

XXXTentacion wrote:A simple useless item or a useless passive ability that has a tool tip explaining the professions is far more efficient and would be a good start in terms of making the game more newer player friendly. After all the WC3 community is small as is.


That's actually quite a good idea and would be fairly easy to implement. I've wanted to add a tutorial mode that would simply guide the player through professions, but perhaps something as simple as a guide-book which has tooltips as instructions would be sufficient.
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XXXTentacion
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Re: Lets Talk the Meta

Postby XXXTentacion » Sat Jul 29, 2017 6:20 am

Pwnage wrote:I wouldn't say that early basing isn't good, because you can certainly make a pretty good defense in the first night and elaborate upon that success with relative ease. The problem with winning using an early base is that your investments are easily located if you stay within the base during night and get spotted out. An easy way to overcome this is to rush a wife as quickly as possible and prioritize using her to farm crops so your base is less easily discovered. Few strategies accommodate getting a wife first night, but it's certainly possible. Once you have the wife, send your villager & dog hunting and everything should be fine. The only difficulty in this strategy is micromanaging your wife/sons effectively while your villager performs other tasks, but micromanaging is expected in the current meta regardless, so this should be trivial.


This seems like a fair and viable strategy, micromanaging is still something fairly hard for me to be honest, but hopefully in the future I can manage (I like the idea of having an unbreakable base and the WW running away as a result). But, I didn't really elaborate but I do know that there are good early basing strats but they require a lot more skill to pull off. My argument is more towards making early basing more viable for newer players as again is their initial reaction once the game as started. In the future I'd love to have some sort of big meta switch in the future to make the game refreshing. But back to the main focus, perhaps nerfing werewolf damage in the early game so that hunting has to be a necessity. I don't have a concrete solution to any balance solutions but if you WERE to play test a buff in early basing then I'd say I'm first in line in willing to test it out.

Pwnage wrote:That's actually quite a good idea and would be fairly easy to implement. I've wanted to add a tutorial mode that would simply guide the player through professions, but perhaps something as simple as a guide-book which has tooltips as instructions would be sufficient.


Just a simple addition like that to the game I think would increase game quality for EVERY player and is a good start towards better clarity for newer players. Also for WW I haven't played it as much but I don't think there's any hint towards having to hunt animals in order to gain zombies for the next night. Again a newer players WW focus would be only trying to hunt down other villagers.

Could you elaborate on how you'd make a tutorial mode as such? Seems like a very interesting addition.
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Pwnage
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Re: Lets Talk the Meta

Postby Pwnage » Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:17 pm

XXXTentacion wrote:Could you elaborate on how you'd make a tutorial mode as such? Seems like a very interesting addition.

Sure. The concept would be relatively straight forward and would guide the player through an entire game. Let's assume the player just types

Code: Select all

-tutorial

At this stage, the villager will be walked automatically to a fishing store (accompanied by a ping), and a wall of text will be presented only to that player which describes the basics behind the game and will instruct them to buy a fishing rod. Once they have the fishing rod, the text will say click it to fish, and so on so forth. Essentially it will be a quest for just that person that will register which actions they've completed and tell them what to do next, all while giving them more information. I'd probably just write it for a strategy which would have the person fish until they get a certain amount of gold, then have them build a base and start farming so they can get familiar with all of the buildings, and building defenses and what not. Wouldn't be terribly fancy, but it would give a new player a guide to follow as they figure the game out for themselves. This tactic is used in freemium games all the time to teach players and get them addicted, I feel like I could implement it into WWT for a similar effect :P
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