My balance sugestions

Discuss Werewolf - Transylvania strategy, map and more.
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Ruoska
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby Ruoska » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:11 pm

Pwnage wrote:[*]Dogs damage will scale (most likely by days/nights they survive)
[*]Acorn bombs will be removed during testing
[*]Fish Net will be harder to get, will not stun but snare the opponent for 4 seconds, 30 sec cooldown
[*]Magic Immunity will be removed
[*]Whether or not zombies may exist in the game will be determined by vote at the beginning.



I'm not happy at all with these changes :( , I think I'll leave the community, please do me a favor Pwnage :cry: and delete my FBot Status Page
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dudlan66
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby dudlan66 » Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:37 pm

Pwnage wrote:
dudlan66 wrote:Fair enough I expressed mines too, If you wanna delete zombies then delete all early rush killing methods like dog and acorn bombs so then everyone can enjoy this game

Just to reiterate on the changes that will be implemented into the next version:
  • Dogs damage will scale (most likely by days/nights they survive)
  • Acorn bombs will be removed during testing
  • Fish Net will be harder to get, will not stun but snare the opponent for 4 seconds, 30 sec cooldown
  • Magic Immunity will be removed
  • Whether or not zombies may exist in the game will be determined by vote at the beginning.
However, I would like to iterate that even if you are the werewolf and you attack a base that has Fish Net + 3 zombies defending it, there is no reason to assume zombies are the problem. Killing haunted corpses is easy, and you should be attacking bases with a human army late in the game if you're serious about winning; have them focus the corpses. Killing zombies provides massive (perhaps too much) experience, which harms the villagers if an ally is stupid. If anything, this is the crux of the zombies since they can massively overfeed the wolf. Please keep in mind that through the many games that have occurred in 1.27.01, we can confidently assume that the problem with this version is not the strength of the Werewolf or the nuisance of zombies, but the absolute dominance fish net and magic immunity have on the game.


Could not agree more , if you serious about winning you should have army to deal with corpses, after all they have very low HP unlike that plant which insta heals you. In one of my previous games I was ww and if there were no zombies then I would not be able to gain lvl 25 so fast and win. Animals don't give you a lot of exp and if you don't exp fast enough with ww then you are destined to lose.
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OrcinusOrca
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby OrcinusOrca » Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:35 am

Pwnage wrote:
dudlan66 wrote:Fair enough I expressed mines too, If you wanna delete zombies then delete all early rush killing methods like dog and acorn bombs so then everyone can enjoy this game

Just to reiterate on the changes that will be implemented into the next version:
  • Dogs damage will scale (most likely by days/nights they survive)
  • Acorn bombs will be removed during testing
  • Fish Net will be harder to get, will not stun but snare the opponent for 4 seconds, 30 sec cooldown
  • Magic Immunity will be removed
  • Whether or not zombies may exist in the game will be determined by vote at the beginning.
However, I would like to iterate that even if you are the werewolf and you attack a base that has Fish Net + 3 zombies defending it, there is no reason to assume zombies are the problem. Killing haunted corpses is easy, and you should be attacking bases with a human army late in the game if you're serious about winning; have them focus the corpses. Killing zombies provides massive (perhaps too much) experience, which harms the villagers if an ally is stupid. If anything, this is the crux of the zombies since they can massively overfeed the wolf. Please keep in mind that through the many games that have occurred in 1.27.01, we can confidently assume that the problem with this version is not the strength of the Werewolf or the nuisance of zombies, but the absolute dominance fish net and magic immunity have on the game.


The problem fighting player with WW army is the fact that you fight his base which has towers + he has more troops and AURAS. Auras do a lot - 5 armor transmute and + 25 % dmg is really strong boost if villager knows how to control his army. So having to fight a good villager player is a challenge and zombies are real pain in the ass. Also if player Can see that he has good position and can handle you,zombies can attack base. If they destroy buildings than WW has not many options to finish it.
Stormblessed
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby Stormblessed » Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:20 am

[*]Magic Immunity will be removed

Well, I can't wait to see zombies making the game unbalanced from other angle. Hunted corpses will wreck villagers to no end. If zombies will decide to side with werewolf instead we get another merry situation in which villager won't be able to move due to hunted corpses. You guys assume people bunker themselves in every game deep in their villagers, but some people actually venture outside the windows and once they step on the wrong corpse it's gg coz you can't move an inch and there might be no army nearby.

Same things goes for werewolf, it's correct you attack with army first and shit but then again, you bump into two zombies in the forest, they place corpses handily and its gg once again..meh(happened to me dozens of times really, it's not that difficult to find yourself in unlucky situation given that many people crave for revenge after killing them in petty video game right)

Hopefully it won't get from one corner to another.
dudlan66
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby dudlan66 » Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:48 pm

OrcinusOrca wrote:
Pwnage wrote:
dudlan66 wrote:Fair enough I expressed mines too, If you wanna delete zombies then delete all early rush killing methods like dog and acorn bombs so then everyone can enjoy this game

Just to reiterate on the changes that will be implemented into the next version:
  • Dogs damage will scale (most likely by days/nights they survive)
  • Acorn bombs will be removed during testing
  • Fish Net will be harder to get, will not stun but snare the opponent for 4 seconds, 30 sec cooldown
  • Magic Immunity will be removed
  • Whether or not zombies may exist in the game will be determined by vote at the beginning.
However, I would like to iterate that even if you are the werewolf and you attack a base that has Fish Net + 3 zombies defending it, there is no reason to assume zombies are the problem. Killing haunted corpses is easy, and you should be attacking bases with a human army late in the game if you're serious about winning; have them focus the corpses. Killing zombies provides massive (perhaps too much) experience, which harms the villagers if an ally is stupid. If anything, this is the crux of the zombies since they can massively overfeed the wolf. Please keep in mind that through the many games that have occurred in 1.27.01, we can confidently assume that the problem with this version is not the strength of the Werewolf or the nuisance of zombies, but the absolute dominance fish net and magic immunity have on the game.


The problem fighting player with WW army is the fact that you fight his base which has towers + he has more troops and AURAS. Auras do a lot - 5 armor transmute and + 25 % dmg is really strong boost if villager knows how to control his army. So having to fight a good villager player is a challenge and zombies are real pain in the ass. Also if player Can see that he has good position and can handle you,zombies can attack base. If they destroy buildings than WW has not many options to finish it.


As above , you can have auras too if you smart and use clock villager or your sons to hold it . Just to place them far enough from range . I don't rly see an argument in here , ww can win easily against any villager even if there are zombies. As ww you are not meant to tell everyone that you are werewolf which you often do and then complain about zombies. If you hidden your identity long enough I don't belive zombies would be a problem for you
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Razvan
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby Razvan » Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:14 pm

I said it in other post and i want to say even here... Please stop complaining about zombies, they are low in fights with ww. Zombies are actually the fountain of xp for ww, killing them u become stronger. In this version you cant be killed by zombies if you know how to play. I really enjoy to have zombies each game. I agree that sometimes they can pissed you off but this is the part of game.
Are other things in the game mechanics that i would like to see changed but overall cant be 100% perfect.
And this ideea with vote for zombies is the best :D Please dont remove them, i think i`m not the only one here who want zombies in games :)))
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Pwnage
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby Pwnage » Sat Feb 04, 2017 2:05 am

dudlan66 wrote:As above , you can have auras too if you smart and use clock villager or your sons to hold it . Just to place them far enough from range.

I don't believe Clockwork Villager has any inventory slots in 1.27.01, but this may change in later versions to make them more useful. You are correct, having auras via sons is viable, though not a strategy I often see.
Razvan wrote:Zombies are actually the fountain of xp for ww, killing them u become stronger.

As I stated above, this is true. In fact, this may be one of the most annoying qualities about the zombies since let's say you have Player A & Player B;
  • Player A is werewolf, Player B is werewolf's friend and a level 25 zombie.
  • Player B continuously feeds Player A when possible, making the werewolf stronger.
  • When attacking bases, Player B can provide useful damage against walls and will often go undamaged if units are focusing the werewolf
  • ?????
  • Profit.

They will be vote instantiated, though players must make the vote similarly to the -no secrets vote (which isn't heavily advertised) since I don't want everyone to be forced to vote on something at the beginning of the game. How many players do you think should vote -no zombies for there to be no zombies? If there are no zombies, should players be kicked, or given a shade unit which cannot possess anything? Would it be fair to give players ONE zombie that didn't respawn instead of there being no zombies? What about ONE unit (maybe like a haunted ent) to dead players?
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Razvan
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby Razvan » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:10 am

I think you are wrong here. Tell me please where is the difference between team-party ww-villager and ww-zombie. I actually think that is more frustrating when you have to play against party villager-ww, instant lose. And i play alot of games and i dont think that i saw 3 games where zombies feed purposeful the ww, instead games where some guyz made party against other players (ww-villager) i saw often.
In my oppinion zombies should not be removed.
And another thing, many players after they die, they instantly leave because playing as zombies is kinda booring.
Razvan
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby Razvan » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:18 am

I dont know yet, how will be the situation in the new version of WWT, but i want to say this, villager can reach level 25 in max 20 minutes, even less.
So, after 30 minutes of game, ww is gonna be lvl 10 max and villager lvl 25 with some special abilities and armies. For me it`s still unbalanced.
Stormblessed
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby Stormblessed » Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:00 am

Make it 3 votes -4 votes at maximum. Players seem to not be fond of voting on anything as I tried to encourage people to vote on -no secrets multiple times, they always ask "WHY" and I don't have time ingame to explain every cursed secrets either wills to say cliche lines "coz owl is op" everytime, it's nauseous and leads to debates whether we should play with or without something, that's why if any command could be of use here, it must have reasonable number of votes to pull.

Whether they get kicked or get shady units or single zombie it's all way better from current situation so personally it's whatever for me. Getting kicked would be cooler tho, lose would be more explicit =))))

Razvan you state you've played a lot of games but I haven't seen you myself single time and as you can check and see on the Fbot page I played quite a number of games and play daily so if you ask me you seem like newbie who's just afraid of losing convienient immortal zombie incase you don't work out well with your villager but possibly it's just me who sees it this way.

30 minutes of game is exactly 5 nights of time. After 5 nights of time Werewolf could be around level 14 if he killed some villagers before. Level 10 you get way earlier.(.good werewolf.)

When fish net gets nerfed, Werewolf will do great you wait and see :-)

Once zombies get thoroughly discussed new version will be all well and shiny, right? ;

Scarecrow is kinda worrying, coz people use it rarely but it heals incredibly(why would people bother with plants when they have op fish net ye)
Like villagers werent strong enough
Astrozavr
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby Astrozavr » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:16 am

How many players do you think should vote -no zombies for there to be no zombies? If there are no zombies, should players be kicked, or given a shade unit which cannot possess anything? Would it be fair to give players ONE zombie that didn't respawn instead of there being no zombies? What about ONE unit (maybe like a haunted ent) to dead players?


Funny thing but the most of players don't even wish to vote for !votestart command even if it is low activity time and they prefer to wait forever for fullhouse.... So if you place a mark for example 1/2 votes for zombies then situation shall remain the same as it was before a new patch, because it would be difficult to explain every time why players should vote against zombies. But most players who choose zombie will not get a real motivation to tryhard for a victory caz they play rarely and winning dont bother them at all. I think 2 votes will be enough to make a decision to play with/without zombies in a game.
A villager who dies should be kicked I think because in opposite case other players can still have free "maphack" using that zombie player like a scout. And that zombie will often help them because the only reason such noob players continue to play zombie - is revenge to their killer.
OrcinusOrca
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby OrcinusOrca » Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:53 am

dudlan66 wrote:
OrcinusOrca wrote:
Pwnage wrote:Just to reiterate on the changes that will be implemented into the next version:
  • Dogs damage will scale (most likely by days/nights they survive)
  • Acorn bombs will be removed during testing
  • Fish Net will be harder to get, will not stun but snare the opponent for 4 seconds, 30 sec cooldown
  • Magic Immunity will be removed
  • Whether or not zombies may exist in the game will be determined by vote at the beginning.
However, I would like to iterate that even if you are the werewolf and you attack a base that has Fish Net + 3 zombies defending it, there is no reason to assume zombies are the problem. Killing haunted corpses is easy, and you should be attacking bases with a human army late in the game if you're serious about winning; have them focus the corpses. Killing zombies provides massive (perhaps too much) experience, which harms the villagers if an ally is stupid. If anything, this is the crux of the zombies since they can massively overfeed the wolf. Please keep in mind that through the many games that have occurred in 1.27.01, we can confidently assume that the problem with this version is not the strength of the Werewolf or the nuisance of zombies, but the absolute dominance fish net and magic immunity have on the game.


The problem fighting player with WW army is the fact that you fight his base which has towers + he has more troops and AURAS. Auras do a lot - 5 armor transmute and + 25 % dmg is really strong boost if villager knows how to control his army. So having to fight a good villager player is a challenge and zombies are real pain in the ass. Also if player Can see that he has good position and can handle you,zombies can attack base. If they destroy buildings than WW has not many options to finish it.


As above , you can have auras too if you smart and use clock villager or your sons to hold it . Just to place them far enough from range . I don't rly see an argument in here , ww can win easily against any villager even if there are zombies. As ww you are not meant to tell everyone that you are werewolf which you often do and then complain about zombies. If you hidden your identity long enough I don't belive zombies would be a problem for you


Clockwork villager has no inventory so learn the game before you post ok ? And yes there were werewolf players who tried to use sons for auras but I had transmute so GG WP.
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Falanor
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby Falanor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:34 am

Ruoska wrote:I'm not happy at all with these changes :( , I think I'll leave the community, please do me a favor Pwnage :cry: and delete my FBot Status Page

We are not doing any resets on player's statistic right now.

Maybe when a proper ELO rating calculation will be added, we may do a global stats reset, but we will try to include player's previous experience in it like we did with winrate count (old games when there were no wolf/villager wincount are still added to total games count).

We will discuss it on forums for sure, so people can tell us their opinion and add ideas on how the rating can be more fair. Our current ranking system is kind of "testing".

One way of making clean stats, is making a new name or change a server and use the same name.
OrcinusOrca
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby OrcinusOrca » Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:59 pm

Pwnage wrote:
dudlan66 wrote:Fair enough I expressed mines too, If you wanna delete zombies then delete all early rush killing methods like dog and acorn bombs so then everyone can enjoy this game

Just to reiterate on the changes that will be implemented into the next version:
  • Dogs damage will scale (most likely by days/nights they survive)
  • Acorn bombs will be removed during testing
  • Fish Net will be harder to get, will not stun but snare the opponent for 4 seconds, 30 sec cooldown
  • Magic Immunity will be removed
  • Whether or not zombies may exist in the game will be determined by vote at the beginning.
However, I would like to iterate that even if you are the werewolf and you attack a base that has Fish Net + 3 zombies defending it, there is no reason to assume zombies are the problem. Killing haunted corpses is easy, and you should be attacking bases with a human army late in the game if you're serious about winning; have them focus the corpses. Killing zombies provides massive (perhaps too much) experience, which harms the villagers if an ally is stupid. If anything, this is the crux of the zombies since they can massively overfeed the wolf. Please keep in mind that through the many games that have occurred in 1.27.01, we can confidently assume that the problem with this version is not the strength of the Werewolf or the nuisance of zombies, but the absolute dominance fish net and magic immunity have on the game.


Another thing is tree bug. During summer you need one whim of the druids and during winter 2. After winter ends there is a bug that you use it, tree disappears but you can not cross it because in system it is still there. I have no idea how is this bug happening but in my opinion it would be better if you have 1 whim on 1 tree during summer and winter. If there is a reason for this I will gladly accept explanation.

Random event curse needs to be blocked if first WW gets killed. When you get cursed and the second WW is spawned without it you are easy prey. When this happens people are dropping left and right to WW and his minions. Then it can be on next day after new WW was picked.
OrcinusOrca
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Re: My balance sugestions

Postby OrcinusOrca » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:02 pm

Ruoska wrote:
Pwnage wrote:[*]Dogs damage will scale (most likely by days/nights they survive)
[*]Acorn bombs will be removed during testing
[*]Fish Net will be harder to get, will not stun but snare the opponent for 4 seconds, 30 sec cooldown
[*]Magic Immunity will be removed
[*]Whether or not zombies may exist in the game will be determined by vote at the beginning.



I'm not happy at all with these changes :( , I think I'll leave the community, please do me a favor Pwnage :cry: and delete my FBot Status Page


Why are you going to leave now? When we protest zombies in this game we protest something that is already in the game. Give it a try and then you will see. I am quite happy to see this changes. Dog is nerfed and I think that I got best dog control at the moment. There are games where I bought 0 spears and had most animals hunted because my dog control.